In part 2 of our discussion of the book Catastrophism: The Apocalyptic Politics of Collapse and Rebirth, we talk with authors Sasha Lilley and James Davis. We unpack the myth that catastrophe will create a "clean slate" whereby we can start a new and better society, and we deal with the reality that the ideology of catastrophism has historically been and still presents obstacles to building revolutionary change because it rests on a pedestal of fear.

We discuss how this wide spread fear aids the state in gaining more control and ruling on the basis of TINA (There Is No Alternative). By ruling under this mandate, those who control the state have a long memory whereby they plan and execute policy based on the past victories of the people they presume to rule. 

Sasha and James also talk about the flaws in "leftists" and "right-wing" catastrophic theories which ultimately lead to individualistic and narcissistic solutions that minimize the importance of every-day organizing. This interview is very interesting and reveals many of the limitations posed by the idea that change will come through some unforeseen and devastating event.

Length: 01:28:14  Size: 102.0 MB